Vader Raider 2.0 - Consistency Wins Games

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TinyGrimes 3210

This is an update to my original Vader/Raider build. I made a video about the list explaining all the cards choices here:

The major difference is an emphasis on consistency over insane burst. Instead of avoiding amazing cards because they hinder No Mercy, the deck is now full of top 10 cards. Additionally, It Binds All Things allows you load up Vader with attachments. Nothing is scarier than Vader rolling his dice with weapons.

When things go wrong, you still have Force Strike, but now there is also the full suite of yellow dice control cards.

The bottom line is that this is a really consistent version of Vader Raider that may push this combination of characters back into the ranks of tier 1.

I'd love to hear your results with the list. I'm unbeaten so far against a wide range of decks such as Jabba/Dooku, Han/Rey, and Jango/Veers, but I still consider it early in the testing period.

32 hozzászólás

Muffin Man 1

I've been playing something similar recently and it has been performing very well. Using emperor's throne room can really catch opponents off gaurd and really speeds up the deck. I want to try it binds all things but have a weird attachment to power of the dark side, which will most likely get replaced soon. Also seems like people are not so into immobilize anymore?

BobaFatt 2

I've been running a modified version with more yellow and I'm currently 19-5 in tourney play in my local meta. I'm a little more event heavy than upgrade. Flame Thrower on Vader is nuts. Love the deck tho, been playing it since release.

Chad Vader 1

I was thinking about this yesterday, actually. Cause I noticed flame thrower was ranged

Thrindal 139

Watched your Video, just wondering why the love for Hunker Down. It's free that's great but it does add in an action and is easily removed, even Jango in Jango/Veers has a decent chance to remove it. Not saying your wrong, just want to know your thought process.

TinyGrimes 3210

@ThrindalHunker Down against a ranged deck adds around 4-5 life if gotten early. That is a lot of extra health. The meta right now is a heavy gun meta. Even against a Jango/Veers that gets lucky and rolls the 1/6 melee side gives up a few health to it. I consider it a top 5 card in the game right now.

Thrindal 139


Ajm9619 1

@TinyGrimes totally not related to this deck but love the youtube videos thanks for all you do

Book 1394

I do think that Hunker Down is agreeably a powerful card, but it is slow, slow, slow. Decks rocking this upgrade typically are not claiming as fast. Part of what made V/R so brutal was it was relatively quick and could claim faster. I'll be interested to see how this plays considering it is not taking that exact approach--It Binds All Things is also another one of those investment strategy cards.

Chad Vader 1

I'm not so sure about the 3 drop yellows. I tried Thermal Detonator and it felt clunky. I also thought about Flame Thrower... it's just that this deck is so hungry for resources early on. I'm currently at:

2x Sith Holocron 2x Kylo Ren's Lightsaber 2x Lightsaber 2x Gaffi Stick 2x Mind Probe 2x Force Choke

and 2x It Binds All Things

Book 1394

Gaffi Stick is pretty marginal, and also loves resources. Flame Thrower is cool, but it just is, again, slow and expensive.

Chad Vader 1

I'm not too fond of Force Throw either, but until ffg comes out with more lightsabers and/or better cheap yellow melee upgrades, guess we just have to sit tight until april.

Book 1394

Force Throw is bananas.

Chad Vader 1

@Book maybe i'm just using it wrong. Does Force Throw work on a die that's a modifier... like "+2", you can remove to deal '2'?

TinyGrimes 3210

@BookI agree that Hunker Down is slow. But it is just that good. There are some matchups where I will play it and others I won't. For instance, if there is a turn where I won't get the BF anyway, I might go Hunker Down, exhaust, overwrite Hunker Down, exhaust, then overwrite Hunker Down next turn. Upping Vader from even 13 to 16 health can be a real difference maker. But there are certainly games where I don't play it because it is too slow.

TinyGrimes 3210

@Chad VaderFlame Thrower is just another melee weapon. I really don't like the Gaffi Stick. Having said that, I'm now 10-0 with the deck and haven't played Flame Thrower even one time. My guess is that it will get replaced very soon. I'll probably put another Mind Probe or Feel Your Anger in its place. No Mercy is an option as well, but I haven't played that as well yet.

Chad Vader 1

@TinyGrimes yeah, especially with It Binds All Things , stay away from the yellow mediocre melee upgrades.

Our playgroup is relatively new, <2 weeks, and we were only able to get product recently. However, the Jango/Veers play had never seen No Mercy, and i discareded 4 blues to whack Jango off a Vader 3 roll.

It's another one of those cards that is useless a lot, but sometimes it's back breaking and better with mostly bllue upgrades. I feeling it as a 1-of.

BobaFatt 2

@Chad VaderThat's exactlly how Force Throw works. It is a great card.

MTUethomas 39

I love Force Throw. I think it's a brilliant card. I love rolling it right away, creating a reason for a high-value-dice threat to hesitate in being activated. I love taking advantage when someone doesn't hesitate, throwing their best roll right back at their most key character.

That being said, it can be super situational. It wants to be in a deck with multiple force characters. It does best against high rollers but becomes -meh- against decks with lower valued faces.

In the right deck, it can be amazing and fun but it's definitely not a "good-stuff-any-deck" card. It depends on your deck, opponent's deck, and situation. The blue-only really killed it for my particular deck.

Book 1394

I suppose my observations are as follows:

1.) strong points about Hunker Down. Just a big tempo shift for this type of deck, but it may be just what it needs.

2.) not keen on flamethrower. It's expensive, it has the one baller but resource-intensive side in a deck with soooo many upgrades--even with holocron and it binds all things. I don't know that diluting the value of No Mercy, which can straight off a character many times in many situations, is a valuable change.

3.) Isolation is a good little card. Limited in some ways, sure, but I wonder if the defensive position of the deck is hampered by the additional upgrades. And, further, more juice for No Mercy--one of the best cards in the original build

4.) It binds all things is just slowwwww. It's another tempo hit. Sure, it pays for itself in short order, but with Holocron, it feels mostly moot beyond the sabers--which you could prob just run 2 of and overwrite the less cool upgrades like Force Training.

Again, this is all vacuum speak.

TinyGrimes 3210

@BookMy assumption these days is that Holocron will not trigger. It is a valuable card because it eats so much removal, not because it has a great effect. In rare circumstances it goes off, but that is not the norm. As such, Binds is reducing a lot of cards if played early. But I am currently evaluating Binds. So far, it's been great.

Clovis20 1

@TinyGrimes I just got 1x Force Choke, what would you recommend to put?

Lasci 87

@TinyGrimes I think I'd go with -2 Hunker Down and -1 Flamethrower for +2 Power of the Force and +1 No Mercy. I'm fine with only having six cards in my deck that can't be used with No Mercy, and I feel like with all the blue upgrades you're running it's a shame Power of the Force isn't in here for additional oomph on, say, those mostly lackluster Tusken dice.

Thrindal 139

Force Throw is very nice, remember you can use it to throw your own dice as well. Things like the Raiders 3 for a Resource or a big plus side without help can be thrown at your opponent as well.

I also think Gaffi stick has a lot going for it. The 2 resource cost for a redeploy weapon and the special is awesome, it can be used on a resource or plus side to do 3 damage, way more useful special then Flame Thrower. That said I don't have either Gaffi Stick or Flame Thrower in my Vaider/Raider list, I just think Gaffi stick is way better than many folks give it credit for.

herrerodani 100

What about Desarmar for having a little advantage againts other holocrons?

w00dy101 1

Hey Tiny, I am semi new to the game and I have a quick question. I know this deck is focusing on Blue and putting a yellow only upgrade in the deck is likely bad but, would Cunning be powerful enough with all the great specials in the deck to ignore this restriction? I have found that cunning is amazing in decks running two Force Chokes and Force Throws.

chazz 157

Howdy Tiny! Firstly thanks for all the videos, they're great. Secondly I took a deck very similar to this (-hunker downs and -flamethrower amongst other minor alterations) to a 29 person tournament yesterday. Was coming 1st before the cut (undefeated) and ended up 2nd with a finals loss to a great Ackbar/2xGuns list. I think I'm tempted to drop the mind probes (I took 2) after getting cunninged tragically in my final game. I'd really like a 2 cost upgrade that can go on the Raider and boost his damage potential. A close combat style Jetpack, if you will. We'll see what the next set brings.

Thrindal 139

Chazz.. Gaffi Stick? It's 2 cost and has Melee Damage.

Darth Evil 1

i've played a few games with this deck and omg is Vader at 2 dice so damn inconsistent, even when rerolling my Vader dice are always landing on disrupt, my GF started laughing at me because i rolled Disrupt on Vader 7 rolls in a row. I like the yellow events but i miss too many of the blue events like Use the Force or Isolation.

Nerdw/themouth 7

Not hard to beat.Need dice removal and anti Melee. Every Amazing deck we see, we see easy counters. That is why I love the game.

Enfantterrible 171

@TinyGrimes how do you think the Vader + character decks will stand in the meta with the inclusion of characters like Royal Guard? Monoblue, missing out on yellow dice mods, but access to a brilliant die from the Royal Guard.

Andfritz30 1532

Force speed would be good in this

Sith Lord 8