Under the Radar Over the Top 1.0

• Verziók

in your calculation, the credit costs for naked Leia/ePoe are one two high, right? Leia has a 2 ranged w/o payment, so it is 6 damage for 0, 7 for 1 or 8 for 2.

It's a Trap! is a 1 cost.

and you forgot the 2 focus side on ackbar buddie, thats do all in an kind of "its a trap"

I did not forget about two focus, I just think it is not very reliable without any enabler. I prefer this faster and harder hitting approach.

I have played both, this deck is not as good as Leia/Ackbar until the new set, and probably after just looking at the new cards. I have said it before in other lists of this deck (where you pulled my [It's a Trap!](/card/01107 comparisons from), and this deck list isnt differnt enough to warrant it

If want to boil it down to Poe VS Ackbar, then its easy. Playing Ackbar instead of Poe gets you 4 starting die. Ackbar's ability is better unless something more attractive to special with comes along for Poe. Keeping decks from re-rolling the max number of times available to them or just killing their characters is better than getting in occasional damage (not even really impressive powerful damage, as I demonstrated in the other thread) if things go right. Poe's special is harder to play around and has you discarding cards that would be more helpful in play but are too expensive to have a dream of playing normally or end up being difficult to get on the table because you want to spend your resources on defense and ranged damage on Poe. Also cutting Poe means you get to cut 10 cards and play a much better version of this deck if you like playing It's a Trap!. Survival Gear, Black One, Launch Bay all because of the special on Poe. Logistics and Resistance HQ too because you can play still sub-optimal but much better in comparison cards in Leia/Ackbar.

The focus side on Ackbar (and by extension Leia, Scout, Promotion) enables so many turns that may squeek out less "possible" damage but still more reliable damage with or without an All-In Making it really gross.

The list is fine, but could be stronger (cutting Resistance HQ for All-in or scout, or holdout blaster for example). If you enjoy playing this list and think its fun, that's awesome. Sharing it for people who haven't seen this style of deck before or are looking for a new fun list to play is kind of the point of the site. Stating its better than Leia/Ackbar and that it provides more reliable damage isn't really close to realistic. It isn't reasonable to assume that you will get the exact right circumstances to make plays for higher damage than would be possible in the same position. I still think that in today's meta Leia/Ackbar is a real contender for top tiers because of It's a Trap! and turn efficiency. I think Poe/Leia Variants place lower on the tier's for mono-red It's a Trap! decks, because of their problems with consistency. I think the list is probably fun for people who like that play style, and it could win a tournament in the hands of a good player, but I definitely dont think this is better.

Thank you for the comment. Maybe you are right. Maybe not. Considering numbers only, you are wrong.

But one thing is for sure: You still do not understand Poe as a character in this list. It is not about rolling his Special. Not at all.

@Nil0Considering what numbers?

Considering testing I am right. I have played nothing but Leia/Ackbar competitively for months, and I have tested Poe/Leia as well. All of that testing lead me to the conclusion that Leia/Ackbar is the stronger/more consistent version. If Poe/Leia had better results, I would have switched to that as a competitive deck instead.

You devote an entire section of your description to your ignorance of how Ackbar works, especially paired with Leia. Players who have played Ackbar understand that the character is a lot more than a 1 dmg side, especially in a deck where you can only play 2 It's a Trap!.

My understanding of Poe's special in this list comes from the fact that you devoted 6 cards directly to it. You wouldn't run Survival Gear, Black One, Launch Bay if you aren't trying to resolve the special. If you didn't run them you wouldn't rely on Logistics enough anymore to justify it, and you shouldn't run Resistance HQ anyway because it just slows your turn down for 1 shield (and it costs 2 resources, and action, and a card in hand to put on the board). So if you don't care about resolving Poe's special then that 10 cards that are better off being something else (a third of your total deck).

Even if it isn't about rolling his special, that means it's about his Ranged Damage Sides. The thing about that is 2 ackbar dice come with another leia dice. So for a ranged side you dont have to pay for (always resolvable) they actually come out even at 4, and a total of 6 with the other Leia Die. Arguably Ackbar's 2 focus side is better than Poe's three damage for 1 resource side. The Poe side is always 3 damage, but Ackbar's focus fixes the other dice in the pool and can always be sure there are multiple damage sides resolving.

When it comes to It's a Trap! you can't just assume that you have the resources to spend on Poe's 3 ranged side.

-On an early turn where you only have 1 resource (because you got disrupted early which happens when you play good players, or because you paid for a 1 resource defense card) the damage is the same when you It's a Trap! naked.

-On a 2 resources turn, Poe can give you 1 more damage from it's a trap. Ackbar can it's a trap and play a defensive card (which is more important for a turn's damage swing than just the damage total). Ackbar could pay for a promotion first instead giving them both 7 damage its a trap. Ackbar could pay for a blaster pistol first instead and actually do 8 damage from It's a trap instead.

-On a 3 resource turn Poe can do 2 more damage 8 total from IAT!. The Ackbar deck can pay for defense this turn which will result in a higher damage swing for the turn. The Ackbar deck could also play a promotion, or a DH17, or even a Holdout blaster and hope to roll into some ranged damage. In any of those cases ends the turn at between 2 less and 0 less.

If the numbers you're considering is only health total then Poe has the lead there.

All of that contact matters, and people should be aware of it when evaluating the deck in a competitive context.

Thank you for this detailed comment. I still think it is not fair that you are promoting another list without understanding this one in detail.

Just a few more ideas:

• You are strictly against spending resources for doing additional damage because you want to spend them on defense. Fine. Totally understandable. The point is: My approach is totally different. It's all about doing as much damage as fast as possible.
• You dislike cards that seem useless (Resistance HQ) and that enable Poe's special (Launch Bay) but you don't get tired of explaining the strength of All In and Scout. These two cards do exactly have the same purpose in another context. Nothing else.
• Be as simple as possible: Compare 2 focus to special. Naked characters. Same chance to role. Ackbar will basically turn Leia's dice into 4dmg. If you've been lucky Ackbar will provide another 1dmg. You did a total of 5dmg. A good result. Poe's special provides something between 0 to 4 dmg. 2 dice left with a potential of 0 to 5 dmg.

Your list, or even the Ackbar approach in general is good, no doubt about it. Maybe it is better than this one. Maybe it is not. Actually it doesn't matter. We've got several cool lists and if people prefer Ackbar they should play a fishy list and if they prefer Poe, they should play any list that has Poe in it. Cool.

I am not sure leaving detailed comments is worth the time. Doesn't seem like they get read. I can say it again: I have tested a better version of this list, and I do understand it in detail from that testing.

To respond to your specific points:

• I play Leia/Ackbar I do as much damage as fast as possible. I never said anything about being strictly against paying resources for extra damage. That is valuable. The problem is that it's not reliable, and it takes resources away from other aspects of the deck that are also valuable.
• I am not sure what you're trying to say on this one, but Resistance HQ actively works against your deck. You have to spend 2 resources on it, then you have to use and action AND discard cards to it....for shields. It slows your "doing as much damage as fast as possible" deck down so much for shields. Launch Bay is just there to discard to Poe's special which you say isn't the point of the deck. It probably would do more damage per game as a holdout blaster. All in speeds your turn up and lets you resolve damage before it can be messed with, and is killer in combonation with Leia/Ackbar's die and essentially gives you access to more turns with It's a Trap! style damage being dealt FAST and before the opponent can mitigate it. Scout is disruption and a way to invest a resource to reduce the cost of other upgrades later. It wont be in the deck anymore after SOTR drops. Not sure how any of these cards have the same purpose.
• To be as simple as possible: Possible damage doesn't equal probable damage or reliable damage. Ackabars 2 focus is always going to give you 4 dmg, Poe's special provides 0-4 damage. 4 damage is only possible through discarding launch bay with a full hand which requires that exact specific situation. If you have played any deck enough times you know that the exact specific situation you want doesn't happen reliably. By your logic its better to play a Vader/x deck because his dice are better than Poe's.

You can say "it doesn't matter", but your description is what drives the conversation to compare the two decks. You say that your list is better in your deck description because Ackbar does nothing more than 2 ranged damage. Obviously people should play whatever deck the prefer, but you aren't using your description to explain how people who want to play it should. Instead you are stating that your deck is better than another deck in the meta because of the "numbers" of possible damage. Sorry but this game isn't sit down and compare lists and whoever can say they have a higher number of potential damage wins the game.

The whole point of my description is having fun. You don't, so I recommend you not to waste any additional time on interpreting my list.

Let's say yours is better. I'm fine with it. Totally great. Bye. :)

You can put your self awarded moral high ground where it belongs, in the trash next to this deck list. If you are okay making claims that aren't true about your list for "fun" that is on you, but I will make comments so that people who come across it aren't misled.

I didn't say anything that is not true. I did not even laugh about you putting Take Cover in a list while yelling at others' card choices. And you know why? Because I have respect and I like what I build and I like what others build.

That's why I please you now to calm down and be respectful. I thank you for taking care of thers. That is very nice. But people do understand what is going on and do not like your harshness and disrespect.

@Nil0 If you were half as clever as you think that you are you would understand why Take Cover is in my list. Saying Ackbar is 2 damage nothing more nothing less was not true. Saying Poe is better than Ackbar in a Mono Red Hero It's a Trap! deck is debatable at best.

I am totally calm, and have been respectful in expressing my opinion. I am still going to call you on your bullshit. You clearly haven't bothered to consider anything I have said with an open mind, and hiding behind a self-righteous attitude doesn't actually make you right. Each time I took the time to write a detailed analysis of the aspect of the list we didn't agree about your replies as the creator of this thread for your deck have been flip, dismissive, and boil down to "I am right because I am, and I know better than you so just trust me your wrong lol". That's not exactly being respectful, and its not adding any understanding to your list. Your understanding clearly, but also the people who see this thread on the front page.

Ok, I am tired of making clear that I do not even care about being right or not.

Being oppressive on me though is not fair. What you wrote lastly is clearly not true. Therefor I call you a liar and I do not do this in respect.

I am disappointed to see you say such a thing.

You don't have to take opinions on your deck list so personally, but since you already have, you should know you can choose not to in the future. It's just a game after all.